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Michael A. Terrell
Guest
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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TwoBearCatz wrote:
| Quote: |
As an owner for a few years of a computer service business I wouldn't
recommend it unless you are a glutton for punishment. The Yellow Pages
is the ONLY effective way to advertise and it cost a LOT. They push you
up year after year and then you make a mistake going to a bigger ad
which just generates more bullshit calls consisting of :
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Anything more than a simple listing of the business name and phone
number shows a business that is desperate for customers.
| Quote: | 1) People looking for "free" over the phone tech support
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It happens with every type of service business. You don't appear to
have the people skills required to deal with it.
If its a quick, "How do I" question, and you know it off the top of
your head, tell them. Otherwise point them to reference websites where
they can find the answers.
If it is a software problem, you tell them to either contact the
publisher for support, reinstall it, or what your rate is for bench time
to straighten it out.
If they have a vague question about their hardware tell them to
install Belarc Advisor and email the results to you so you have some
idea what they are running.
I point them to my website and tell them to use the free software to
check it out themselves, that anything else has to come to one of my
workbenches.
Most of all, that attitude you have causes problems.
| Quote: | 2) People looking for "cheap" laptop repair. Yes, physically broken
laptops that they paid less than $1000 for originally.
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Tell them the truth, that you don't know how to fix it, or lie to
them an just tell them that you can't find the parts.
Salesmen? Tell them to either leave you, mail you their line card,
and you'll get back to them if you need anything. It worked for me for
over 25 years. If they get pushy simply tell them that, due to their
attitude, you will see that the owner blacklists them for five years,
and there will be nothing purchased from them.
| Quote: | 4) People looking to "bring their broken computer somewhere to save
money on a trip charge". Don't you like having to pay over $1000 for
the ad to get them to call and then God knows what for rent and a nice
office/storefront and someone to man it so they can bring the computer
to you and demand a discount? Sorry, doesn't make fiscal sense to me.
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You didn't learn much in college, did you? Give a $20 discount if
the drop it off. You'll save that much by not driving to their
location, and its better than printed advertising. The successful TV
shops did it for decades. People remember where they saved a few bucks
more than they do good service. Its targeted marketing, and 95% of
people are looking for a bargain. Most computers wouldn't have a brand
name on them, if they weren't.
It cost you less to repair a product at your site than theirs in most
cases, and you can work on more than one machine at a time on your
bench. In fact, if everything is carry in, you don't need a service
truck, pay insurance, fuel costs or repairs. That can be a large chunk
of your income if your service area is large.
| Quote: | Referral business is way overrated by those that do not run or
understand this kind of business. In this business your customers
(generally) are demanding and cheap at the same time. What a combo:)
This is why they almost ALWAYS use the Yellow Pages. They won't
remember a flyer they got last week or a radio ad they heard. They WILL
rifle thru the phonebook calling each ad one by one usually looking for
the person who will come out "first". They WILL cancel any other
appointments they've made with abandon (hint: require cc to book) when
the "first" guy shows up at their door. Of course, I have many good
customers ... but they can only pay so much of that $1500/month YP
bill. One more negative sidenote ... as a computer service business
owner don't think you can't be ripped off or "shoplifted" so to speak
(especially if you accept personal checks).
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I had ONE man try to write me a bad check 25 years ago. I waited till
the day before his rent was due. I called his bank and was told he had
just made a deposit, so I went to the closest branch and ran it through
a second time. I got a call a few days later that I had "Made" him
write a bad check to his landlord and he was being evicted.
| Quote: | Some people in any given
city just like to rip off small business. Tough fact of life you'll
have to deal with sooner or later. Anyway, good luck  and if you do
try this biz out do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor and don't use
undercutting as a marketing strategy!
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I have never had a yellow pages listing. I have never run an ad in
any publication. Every job was word of mouth referrals. The first jobs
followed me after I quit and opened my shop. I made a deal with my
previous boss not to actively take his customers, but that I was not
going to turn them away if they knocked on my door. I approached a
school board about an open ended electronics maintenance contract for
their 32 school system. All I had was the business name listed in the
business section of the phone book. At times, I had an unlisted number
because I couldn't handle all the work, and couldn't find the right
help. I did industrial electronics, and added computer repair in the
early '80s.
Today I have the lowest prices in my region. I repair and give away
complete computer systems for free. They go to the disabled in my
county. Primarily to disabled Veterans, and their support groups. Any
extra equipment then goes to anyone else who is disabled and can't
afford a working computer. I am not taking business away from any other
shop, and a number of them call me from time to time to pick up a
truckload of computers they are donating to the project.
I also worked full time for four years as an engineering tech for an
aerospace electronics manufacturer. My specialty was embedded
controllers, including a PC104 motherboard running Embedded NT in an
$80,000 telemetry system. "Disk On Chip" Solid State hard drive, TFT
front panel, and multiple interface busses for remote control. You'll
never see a system like it on your bench. There were about 12
processors in each radio.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida |
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Michael A. Terrell
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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TwoBearCatz wrote:
| Quote: |
smackedass wrote:
Hello mhaase,
Are you doing business stuff @ $45/hr? That *is* a "bit on the low
side". I can *kinda* see doing work for home users for that, but
otherwise I think you are seriously under-valueing yourself.
One of the toughest things I've had to learn is how important it is to
charge ENOUGH. Businesses can & will pay (much) more than that
because keeping their stuff running is WORTH that much to them.
I know you'll feel a little weird at first telling businesses you
charge $95/hr (almost like you're cheating/overcharging them), but if
you're not charging what the market will
bear, you're not letting
"free-market capitalism" work for you.
All of your points (and I haven't here included all of them) are very well
taken. I'm not even a college graduate (not even an Associates Degree), but
I understand the principle of "market penetration", and this is the
principle that I pursue.
I know that some people (PC techs, and people, and companies, who are not PC
technical) draw a distinction between home users and businesses. Where I
live, and work (SE Massachusetts), many of my customers are both. I have
many customers who work, and surf, and let their kids play video games, on
the same machine. Of course, I advise against it, but that's what it is.
Even if that weren't the case, I probably wouldn't charge businesses more
than home users. I'm just not that cutthroat a person. Next time I raise
my rates (yes there will be a next time!), rates will be raised across the
board.
Also, I'd long said to myself that if I ever had my own business, I'd only
like to treat my customers the way that I'd like to be treated. Today, the
Golden Rule is anachronistic, at best, but I've got my own guns to stick
to...I'm very much a "street dude", every day I'm in the post office, the
supermarket, the school, the bank, et al. I'm very much in tune with
people's sensibilities, and with the economic realities of my neighborhood.
Where I live, business is (generally) seasonal, most people know one
another, reputations are quickly acclimated and disseminated...there are
lots of retirees, mostly academic types, and many day to day blue collar
service people. Not many professionals, as would be found in a
city...before I did this I was involved in food service, and I remember a
chef once telling me, "Don't *** where you sleep".
smackedass
First, this thread is confusing from the start. I replied because it
appeared you were contemplating starting a computer service business ..
not already running one?!
Next, I really hate uneducated types like you that undercut everyone in
this field.
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As opposed to over educated idiots who think they own the market?
| Quote: | You are right, you don't advertise like the big boys
because you can't run with them. It's really ALL too bad this field
doesn't have even one "BAR" exam because it would knock riff raff like
yourself right out of the ballpark.
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It sounds like the only requirement you want to see on that exam is
the name of an acceptable college.
| Quote: | It's because of you that all of us
EDUCATED, EXPERIENCED pros have to hear stories about the "guy that
used to be down the street" who "used to charge 50 bucks to fix the
PC". What's amusing to the point of absurdity is that the "guy down the
street" rarely fixed anything completely, correct, and/or with legal
software.
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If you had proof they were doing anything illegal, I'm sure you would
have turned them in, so this is a straw man.
| Quote: | Also, the "guy down the street" is always out of business by
the time they call us. Gee, I wonder why?! 45/hour in Taxachusetts?!
RIDICULOUS. You know something? Even most of the one liners here charge
a $100 min and COL is MUCH lower than where you are at.
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Some people work out of lower rent storefronts, or like a friend of
mine, an older industrial park where the rent is less than 20% of the
computer stores next to the mall.
| Quote: | Funny you also mention the corporate world while lacking a college
degree. In nearly 10 years of software development in the corporate
world I found the dirtiest politics to almost always be DIRECTLY
related to the average education level on the teams. When a one or more
lack a college degree they FEAR losing their precious job to someone
who actually deserved it.
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Gee, if a business really has to lay people off, yet want to stay in
business they keep those who can do the needed job, not who can cover
nail holes with diplomas. My last job laid off a lot of degreed people
before they got to me. One of the jobs I took over was to replace
someone with a degree. I cut the time by over 75% and improved the
overall product. This was done by writing new test procedures, building
better test fixtures, and getting the company to buy some better test
equipment. I knew some of our designs better than the engineers who
designed them. I could make the equipment work and meet specifications
better than anyone else in the company.
Finally, I was laid off when I got sick, and couldn't work overtime,
just months before they pulled the plug on the local plant to move
everything to the rust belt. Guess what happened? All those people
they left behind without degrees were the only ones able to build 90% of
their product lines and they lost millions of dollars on contracts they
couldn't complete. All those degrees couldn't get product out the door.
| Quote: | This creates nasty politics. Anyone who has
been there knows exactly what I'm talking about. In fact, I remember my
first job out of college back in the mid 90's. A contractor from
BoozAllen? told me not to ever even mention education around fellow
consultant ... since most didn't even have a BS at the time. Thankfully
that has changed, but not before the IT field turned upside down and a
whole !@@#$%$ load of jobs went to India because average American
programmers were uneducated buffoons with really bad attitudes.
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Just like the 100% degreed IT dept. I had to fight with on a weekly
basis because of all the boners they pulled. They didn't give a crap
about anyone but themselves. They would take your computer without
telling you, erase your work files and give your computer to someone
else. I needed three parallel ports on one of my computers, and I had
to go to the president of the company to get them. The morons would
change the IP address of parts of the engineering network without
notice. I had things set upi so engineering could log into a radio in
the test line to see what a problem was without dragging it to the
engineering department. They decided that we only needed one IP address
for everything in production, so nothing worked. It took another
meeting with the head of engineering, and the president of the company
to put an end to it.
| Quote: |
In short, I recant my "Good Luck" to you!
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You are the one that needs "Luck" I've always depended on my skills
and brains.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida |
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smackedass
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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Sigh...I'm riff-raff, I'm a Yoda (huh?), I'm not a big boy, my grammar is
not perfect, I use too many $5 words, and my posts aren't readable. You
can't see from where you are, but my toenails need clipping, and you can't
smell from where you are, but my breath is bad. Thank God for Binaca, or I
might not be getting all of this referral business...
Yes, all of these things may be true. What I've yet to hear from you,
however:
1) an explicit definition of "undercutting", and why it's bad. As I've
stated, I think there's no such thing as "undercutting", anyway.
2) why it's not good to treat a customer like you'd like to be treated
yourself, and
3) why you're doing something that you hate, and that apparently, you're
having a lot of trouble making any money at.
Another thing I forgot to mention is that when I'm talking to a customer, I
tell them that I don't consider other technicians to be my competition, so
much, as I do the market for new computers. Sometimes, I even bring along a
copy of Parade magazine (which is the source of many of my $5 words); on the
last page of each issue, Dell has an ad of their current offering. The new
boxes are usually between $300 and $400. That way, if I fix someone's old
box for $180, and they're talking to a friend the next day, and they mention
that they could have gotten a new computer for a little bit more, I can't be
accused of obfuscation.
--
Kema Computer Consulting
Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
P.O. Box 791
Harwich Port, MA 02646
kemacomputer@verizon.net |
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smackedass
Guest
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TwoBearCatz
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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smackedass wrote:
| Quote: | Sigh...I'm riff-raff, I'm a Yoda (huh?), I'm not a big boy, my grammar is
not perfect, I use too many $5 words, and my posts aren't readable. You
can't see from where you are, but my toenails need clipping, and you can't
smell from where you are, but my breath is bad. Thank God for Binaca, or I
might not be getting all of this referral business...
If you were a real professional with a college degree you'd understand |
it's NOT a majority referral business (as I've stated before). True
professions never are. Why do you think attorneys and doctors dominate
most YELLOW PAGE listings?! Of COURSE referrals are a component of any
good business ... but NOT the bread and butter as a fly by night
undercutting slackey like you make it out to be. You say that because
you can't AFFORD REAL advertising on what you charge!
| Quote: |
Yes, all of these things may be true. What I've yet to hear from you,
however:
1) an explicit definition of "undercutting", and why it's bad. As I've
stated, I think there's no such thing as "undercutting", anyway.
Listen. I (and a few others) have already tried to get it thru your |
rather thick skull. Undercutting is EXACTLY what you do and what you
are (currently) all about. You have no real investment in this
PROFESSION. You admit you have no college degree and what some certs?!
You go out and try to scare up business any way you can so long as it
doesn't cost too much. Then, you try to keep the business by charging
roughly half of the going rate of any professional outfit. When people
dislike you or your work, they'll eventually call a PROFESSIONAL shop
.... and statistically will stick with that type of business for a long
time. You can't begin to hire anyone on what you charge and it would be
rather scary for your clients if you did (hope you can figure out
why!). Why don't you try this and report back? Charge what I charge for
2 weeks. $49 per half hour. I charge the same rate for business as
residential and because I'm a nice guy I usually wind up discounting as
much as an hour for some customers depending on the circumstance.
Anyway, it would be fun to see how many of your "great" customers keep
doing business with you when you are no longer bending over for them.
| Quote: |
2) why it's not good to treat a customer like you'd like to be treated
yourself, and
I do. In fact I treat them MUCH better than I get treated by most other |
business I deal with in and out of town. What's your point?! Where did
you come up with that bullshit?!
| Quote: |
3) why you're doing something that you hate, and that apparently, you're
having a lot of trouble making any money at.
Actually, we could and should take this a step further as to WHY people |
like you even THINK they should be in this PROFESSION when you ARE MOST
CERTAINLY NOT QUALIFIED!!! You don't need more than common sense to
realize most things in life happen for an identifiable reason. The IT
field is no exception. In the past 10 years we've seen a HUGE loss for
all Americans in this field. Argue if you will but it's an undeniable
fact it's due to jerkoffs like you. "Falling" into a field you
initially know nothing about. Self teaching, taking certs, etc... but
never getting a BSCS DEGREE or Masters for that matter. I heard a quote
the other day that many IT managers today were failing realtors from
the early 90's. Doesn't surprise me a bit.
See, when you follow a college degree with EXPERIENCE we call that a
PROFESSION. We call the people in it, PROFESSIONALS. Attorneys and
doctors are not in this sad boat since they REJECT people like you. You
simply WOULD NOT be practicing or working on computers for clients at
this time IF the requirements were even half of what they are in a
field like law. If you wanted to, you'd have to do your proverbial
"homework" and put in your proverbial "dues".
You don't find attorneys (like I find computer guys) in my town or ANY
TOWN scooting around town on motor scooters (yes motor scooters) with a
pack of discs and a $40 rate. A smoke in one hand and some el cheapo
customers on the other. As a GROUP they've got more sense than that.
Who would pay $200/hour for an attorney?! Most would rather pay a good
computer tech more money than they would a slimey attorney. The
question is WHY and the answer is oh so simple. THAT IS WHAT ATTORNEYS
COST. Furthermore, if you really know a lot (or even a little) about
computers and software you know as well as I do that an attorney is not
generally smarter or having oh so much more difficult work than a
computer tech or a doctor for that matter. ALL of these things are
technical and involve acquired SKILLS and KNOWLEDGE which is put into
EXPERIENCE. The only HUGE difference is the computer field simply
allows the unqualified - or I should say has historically allowed the
unqualified. As further proof on this you only have to compare job
listing for software dev, tech support, etc from today to 10 years
back. 10 years ago, few required a college degree. Nowadays, almost all
of them do. Why do you think that is?! (don't even bother answering.
I'm sure you'll say some bullshit about the computer science degree not
being around that long. It's been around since the 70's (or earlier?).
THAT'S LONG A FRICKING NUFF! You were probably toddling around in the
70's like I was. Go figure!).
Why did I migrate into this field from software development when I was
making $100+ an hour on a smooth 8 hour day? That's a whole other
discussion but as you could imagine it relates directly to what I have
outlined above and the general decline of the IT field. Also, I did
this work part time while doing software for about a 2 year period. I
made a LOT of money (for me) but is was difficult at best balancing two
jobs. I had to make a choice and believe it or not the mundane PC
service won over one expiring contract after another. I don't see how
you would know about this anyway. Seriously, even though I was
surrounded by uneducated types when I started ... I was surrounded by
folks with more education and experience than I have as I moved up the
ladder. Again, the uneducated inexperienced jerks were still there and
still causing more problems than ever ... but only as a legacy. It's my
firm belief that the computer field will eventually turn as professions
such as medicine and law but UNFORTUNATELY that will probably be
complete in about oh say another 50 years and I'll probably have
shuffled off this mortal core by then. |
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smackedass
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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| Quote: | In other words, you've got nothing more to say! Speaking of anger, you
are 100% correct. I am angry at UNEDUCATED IMPOSTERS in this field. I
don't think "anger" is the best word though since I've been feeling the
same way for about 10 years now ... or since I graduated from college
and was greeted with all you jerkoffs!
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And somehow, lil ole me up here in Massachusetts is raining on your parade
down in Fla. Go figure.
From: The thick-skulled, riff-raff, Yoda, non big boy, undercutting,
non-professional, fly-by-night, unqualified, jerkoff
aka smackedass
aka
Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
Kema Computer Consulting
P.O. Box 791
Harwich Port, MA 02646
kemacomputer@verizon.net |
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TwoBearCatz
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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smackedass wrote:
| Quote: | In other words, you've got nothing more to say! Speaking of anger, you
are 100% correct. I am angry at UNEDUCATED IMPOSTERS in this field. I
don't think "anger" is the best word though since I've been feeling the
same way for about 10 years now ... or since I graduated from college
and was greeted with all you jerkoffs!
And somehow, lil ole me up here in Massachusetts is raining on your parade
down in Fla. Go figure.
From: The thick-skulled, riff-raff, Yoda, non big boy, undercutting,
non-professional, fly-by-night, unqualified, jerkoff
aka smackedass
aka
Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
Kema Computer Consulting
P.O. Box 791
Harwich Port, MA 02646
kemacomputer@verizon.net
|
I guess lack of education always goes hand in hand with illogical
ramblings?! What/how have you "rained on my parade"? Since it hasn't
"sunk in" yet ... the point of this tirade is what you are and what you
represent ... or more importantly what you aren't or don't represent.
As I've stated, there are still PLENTY of jerkoffs like you floating
around out there trying to make a buck in a field they have NOT
properly entered. Two bit hustlers - and I'm not talking about the
dance which I happen to be pretty *** good at! LOL. |
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Michael A. Terrell
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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TwoBearCatz wrote:
| Quote: |
smackedass wrote:
http://www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html
Over and out.
In other words, you've got nothing more to say! Speaking of anger, you
are 100% correct. I am angry at UNEDUCATED IMPOSTERS in this field. I
don't think "anger" is the best word though since I've been feeling the
same way for about 10 years now ... or since I graduated from college
and was greeted with all you jerkoffs!
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Graduated? They gave you a diploma to get your sorry ass off their
campus. At least you are not in my part of the state.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida |
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TwoBearCatz
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
| Quote: | TwoBearCatz wrote:
smackedass wrote:
http://www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html
Over and out.
In other words, you've got nothing more to say! Speaking of anger, you
are 100% correct. I am angry at UNEDUCATED IMPOSTERS in this field. I
don't think "anger" is the best word though since I've been feeling the
same way for about 10 years now ... or since I graduated from college
and was greeted with all you jerkoffs!
Graduated? They gave you a diploma to get your sorry ass off their
campus. At least you are not in my part of the state.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
|
Yes yes ... on a Friday night here I've read your way too LONG list of
accomplishments as if ANYONE CARES!!! It is funny how you came out of
nowhere with all that tripe. Why is it that you uneducated types ALWAYS
feel the need to overcompensate, overtime, and brag about every little
thing you've ever done in the field you lack even the most basic
educational requirements for?! For example, back around '99 I (almost
singlehandedly) developed an e-commerce and catalog framework for a
large mountain bike company. I used server side Java (exclusively) and
this was when Java was in its infancy. The whole thing actually worked
well and they still use it to this day. but ........... SEE ...........
THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE between me and a dipshit like you. I don't feel
the need to fart about anything I've done in this field unless I'm
asked or otherwise obliged to!
What you perceive as arrogant, lazy, etc... about the "degreed" people
is just that - YOUR WARPED PERCEPTION. See, it's warped because you are
WAY too busy spinning your wheels trying to showboat among all those
"degreed" people. Trust me, it's mostly lost on them and they are
probably quite happy when you leave, get fired, etc. After you make an
INVESTMENT as a PROFESSIONAL in a CAREER ... the rest is just that - A
CAREER. It's a job. We "degreed" people don't have this burning need to
PROVE anything while on the job. This is not to say there aren't
stupid, lazy, or otherwise crummy "degreed" workers. It is to say that
your perception is completely WRONG.
" Just like the 100% degreed IT dept. I had to fight with on a weekly
basis because of all the boners they pulled. They didn't give a crap
about anyone but themselves."
Do you realize how *** stupid you sound? Just read that out loud. YEAH
, the fact they hold a college degree IN the field must have SOMETHING
to do with your opinion on the "boners" they pulled.
" Graduated? They gave you a diploma to get your sorry ass off
their
campus. At least you are not in my part of the state."
Even smarter yet. You have some proof on this? LOL.
You're just mad like just about EVERY uneducated IT worker I've EVER
had this convo with. I've seen a guys face turn red (literally) when
this topic comes up. It's the least I can do At least I can have
such conversations on the Internet nowadays without fear of revenge
from some angry uneducated dimwit on the job. Judging by your sig, you
are probably also one of those blowhards that equates "military
experience" with a college degree. Yeah I'm right aren't I? What an
ahole. I worked with PLENTY of ex-mil. Been there, done that. |
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TwoBearCatz
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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smackedass wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html
Over and out.
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In other words, you've got nothing more to say! Speaking of anger, you
are 100% correct. I am angry at UNEDUCATED IMPOSTERS in this field. I
don't think "anger" is the best word though since I've been feeling the
same way for about 10 years now ... or since I graduated from college
and was greeted with all you jerkoffs! |
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GoGators
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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| Quote: |
Yeah thanks for that lazy, dysfunctional WRONG idea. Thanks for
shipping millions of tech jobs at all levels to INDIA where education
in IT is not only a requirement, but a virtue! Don't even start with
the low pay thing. If you are in "IT" or do any research you'll soon
see that's just nonsense when it comes to IT. Some managers may "think"
they are saving money but the reality is most Indians make some GOOD
money in IT - especially the H1B's working here in the US. Also,
equally QUALIFIED Americans are FAR more efficient and inventive than
most Indians ... but that tends to be lost in a sea of hajis nowadays.
There are several large consulting services providers here that ONLY
work with Indians. Most have many exclusive contracts. The *** is
locked up now! :(
Fortunately, your 80's and 90's thinking is being all but abandoned by
most hiring managers today. The job postings CLEARLY reflect this. If
you've been in the business for the past 10 years like I have ... you'd
know this well. Unfortunately, MUCH damage has been done to the field.
By the way, your man Bill Gates hires more offshore people now than
ever! Why do you think that is? You think he wants a staff of people
like you and smackedass here? THINK AGAIN. The reality is American IT
workers have shot themselves in the foot ... both feet! It was done
with a gun loaded with arrogance and no credentials. Even after 10
years in this field, a BSCS, and loads of good experience I have a
certain degree of blind respect for those with education higher than
mine (except for MBA's - that's another story). The same goes with
experience, but not nearly as much as education ... because experience
is not entirely verifiable. Anyone can say ANYthing and in this field
and they certainly do a LOT of that on resumes.
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We are obviously talking about apples and oranges. I (and I suspect
everybody else in this thread) are talking about PC Tech/Help
Desk/Network Admin. jobs. How can someone in India replace a failed
hard disk or RAM, trace a bad network cable, or remove a virus from a
completely hosed system. I'm not a programmer and do not want to be a
full-time programmer. Would I like to learn some more programming
skills to make me better at my job? Without question...but it isn't
required. It is impossible for someone to do my job from 10,000 miles
away. I agree with some of your points, but I still think some of them
are BS, or are irrelevant to most non-programming positions.
Your points bring the American auto manufacturers and the UAW to mind.
Import cars aren't the problem. The idiots at the UAW are the problem.
You can't possibly give the workers what they get and expect to stay
competitive. The fact is, the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing.
And as much as we may dislike it, it truly is a global economy.
Here are my true thoughts on degrees.
The guy that DESIGNS hard drives needs a degree. The guy that installs
hard disks is a bit overkill.
The guy that WRITES antivirus software needs a degree. The guy that
installs AV software is a bit overkill.
The guy that WRITES operating systems needs a degree. The guy that
installs operating systems is a bit overkill.
GoGators
P.S. FSU still sucks |
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smackedass
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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| Quote: | Boy, do we have a stupid one on our hands... He supposedly has a
Bachelor's degree, but is too stupid to know that BSc stands for
Bachelor's of Science? Now that is truly priceless!
GoGators
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Maybe it's time to stop feeding the troll. Trolls can be fed *** and
dumpster juice, and they'll be happy and healthy.
smackedass |
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TwoBearCatz
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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smackedass wrote:
| Quote: | Boy, do we have a stupid one on our hands... He supposedly has a
Bachelor's degree, but is too stupid to know that BSc stands for
Bachelor's of Science? Now that is truly priceless!
GoGators
Maybe it's time to stop feeding the troll. Trolls can be fed *** and
dumpster juice, and they'll be happy and healthy.
smackedass
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Yeah, a troll that puts a mirror right in front of your face! |
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TwoBearCatz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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| Quote: | We are obviously talking about apples and oranges. I (and I suspect
everybody else in this thread) are talking about PC Tech/Help
Desk/Network Admin. jobs. How can someone in India replace a failed
hard disk or RAM, trace a bad network cable, or remove a virus from a
completely hosed system. I'm not a programmer and do not want to be a
full-time programmer. Would I like to learn some more programming
skills to make me better at my job? Without question...but it isn't
required. It is impossible for someone to do my job from 10,000 miles
away. I agree with some of your points, but I still think some of them
are BS, or are irrelevant to most non-programming positions.
I think we are talking about someone that's been living under a ROCK - |
YOU! Have you ever heard of or worked with H1B's?! They are EVERYWHERE
taking jobs like the one you hold right HERE! 10,000 miles away LOL. I
tell ya, you guys in this NG are some real numbskulls.
http://www.toraw.org/
Possibly coming to your company someday soon and TRUST ME you'll be
going "bye bye". Oh, you might get a small severance package if you
train your Indian replacement. They won't keep an uneducated American
over an Indian. They (perception) work for less and all (perception)
have superior IT degrees way before they even get to the United States.
Again, this isn't always true ... but you won't convince the hiring
manager(s) that brought them in of that. Read and learn gatorboy! |
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TwoBearCatz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Starting your own business |
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Anonymous wrote:
| Quote: | On 21 Oct 2006 15:15:53 -0700
"TwoBearCatz" <twobearcatz@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Try and do that with your little old BSc!!!!! "
A motorcycle is it? LOL.
BSc: it's what we call a science degree here. You really are an ignorant jerk,
aren't you?
Fred the Ferret BSc PhD
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I've stated NUMEROUS TIMES I hold a BS in COMPUTER SCIENCE. aka BSCS
for those of you still working on your GED! |
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