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mim
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:11 pm Post subject: Things are changing |
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mim
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Things are changing |
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I know many company's that are now making it a policy that the applicant
have a university degree for network/ programming positions as well as
certs. Why? A couple of reasons, one is they are taking advantage of the
current market downfall, leading up to the second reason which is they get
better workers for less.
I thought at first a degree/Cert wasn't necessary but now I see the
difference. I asked a person without a cert/degree and a person with one
what a definition of a "router" was, these guys are both engineers. The
person with a cert/degree told me the EXACT definition of a router, the
person without one just said "Its just used to share Internet". Of course
there are much more examples I've seen which had convinced me that an
applicant should have a cert or degree. But you can see where I'm coming
from right?
Certification should always have its place, along side with good hands on
experience. Personally I wouldn't go further than getting my CCNA without at
least 6-12months worth of experience. I would actually encourage students to
go to either uni or college otherwise they have no hope even with a couple
years experience for jobs requiring greater responsibilities.
<inquisitiveman2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1d06a7b3.0307291515.117625d3@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | It is irrelevant for almost all technical computer jobs from my
experience. Even many management positions don't require a degree if
you have enough technical work experience. One of my managers does not
have a college degree. I think the days of requiring a college degree
for the IT field are pretty much over. That's why i always tell high
school kids who are planning to major in Computer Science to be a
programmer or network engineer to not waste their money. Unless you
major in something else, it really can be a waste of time when they
can go find a tech job and work their way up!! 4yrs of college time
wasted plus the tuition costs.
"Mark Smythe" <spamster@usenet.org> wrote in message
news:<mczVa.986$KX6.58@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>...
inquisitiveman2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1d06a7b3.0307281152.c5cc280@posting.google.com...
My MBA in MIS means little to recruiters and employers. They
only look at experience. I am a technical support guy working with
people who only graduated high school and get paid just like them. It
sucks!!
It probably is because for some types of technical roles, the college
degree
is irrelevant. What is relevant is continuos education, training , and
even
re-certing. I would be willing to bet that most hands on technical
people do
not have degrees. Degrees are good for management opportunities or for
some
companies that simply require it wether or not it is relevant. |
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Bernie
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Things are changing |
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On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:42:46 -0400, Christian Lemelin
<christian.lemelin@sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi guys,
just FYI
1) Probably you need some organization, like in the Quebec and the
Ontario region (Canada) that protects the term "engineer", it's why the
CCIE and MCSE, change the last E for Expert (formely Engineer)!!! In
Canada, you need to be a bachelor in Engineering to add this title to
your name!
2) Regarding SE vs NE
On the vendor side (cisco, Nortel, Foundry, Marconi, and the rest), the
term System Engineer is for the person on the Pre-sales side, pushes the
qualities and the features of the boxes to close deals with the sales
Rep. !!!
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Don't confuse the term SE with Systems Engineer. SE as you describe
the job (pre-sales) is a "Sales Engineer". Systems Engineer is more
of a grab-bag title that includes jobs that can't be readily
categorized. It is also used by those who specialize in NOS's and
other related applications (like databases or mail servers, etc.).
Anyway, I work with Sales Engineers all the time supporting them on
this or that, so I am not speculating about the translation of the
term SE. I also work for one of the vendors you listed.
| Quote: | And the Network Engineer is the guy on the post-sales side that
troubleshoots the services or the features that the SE sold with the
Rep. !!!
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I think that you are right that this is typically the application of
the title NE in the real world, but it is an application that still
puzzles me. Engineering is a term usually reserved in other fields
for those that build and design something to withstand certain forces.
It is a constructive job, not a fix-it job. So I don't understand why
a NE is someone that fixes a broken network, files bug reports, etc.
It would make more sense to call the pre-sales guys NE's than the
post-sales guys, but that is just my opinion.
| Quote: | Between those 2 persons, you have the customer with his group of
technicians that order, install and configure those boxes... If the
customer have some problems to implement the solution, the SE will help
them; after that, if the problem is too complex, the Network Engineer
will take the lead to troubleshoot and resolve the problem with th help
of traces (Sniffing)... etc.
Christian L.
Bernie a écrit:
On 30 Jul 2003 18:58:11 -0700, mrbedell@home.com (Dave) wrote:
I would agree. That;'s why I am currently going for my M.S> in Telecom
and working on my CCNP. I also find it amusing that System
Administrators are now being called "Network Engineers." Please tell
me how configuring workstations is considered engineering a network.
Paallleeeees.
That is probably number one or two on my top ten list of industry pet
peeves. Actually, none of us should bear the title "engineer" anyway,
but that is another story. But I definitely don't get the systems
people being called "network" guys. What...was "systems engineer" not
good enough for them?
"Some people watch things happen, Some people let things happen, while
others wonder what has happened..."
M.B.
--Bernie
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--Bernie |
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