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| Author |
Message |
Jacob Marble
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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NG dudes -
Thanks for the tips. It looks like I've found a right track so far.
Jake
LandEZ
"Jacob Marble" <jacobmarble@landez.com> wrote in message news:vim0totj9v2nb4@corp.supernews.com...
Hey all-
At work we just purchased a 2621 that I get to manage/configure. I figure I may as well get the CCNA at the same time. A Cisco geek recommended the Cisco Press 607 book by Wendell Odom, so I've ordered the 801 version. I also have here Cisco IOS in a Nutshell and TCP/IP Illustrated so that I can start getting this router configured now, as University classes start in a month and I'm a student. Is this going to be enough? Someone said that the Cisco Press books aren't that great, but again this Cisco geek friend of mine said he just loved this one by Wendell Odom.
So, with what I have right now, does anyone recommend something different/more/less? Thankyou in advance,
Jake
LandEZ |
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Hansang Bae
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:39 am Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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In article <bgk341$j7h$1@hercules.btinternet.com>,
Cisco_Newbie@btopenworld.com says...
[snip]
| Quote: | Just to clarify my conclusion, I don't agree with 'cheating', but I don't
see an easy way to stop it. My point was that the job interview process
usually defeats the fraudsters.
|
But some companies don't perform technical interviews. I have a 6 page
written test and a verbal interview process to weed out the paper
people. I've now seen more than 12 people and am still looking for that
"qualified" senior network jockey.
--
hsb
"Somehow I imagined this experience would be more rewarding" Calvin
*************** USE ROT13 TO SEE MY EMAIL ADDRESS ****************
********************************************************************
Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to
reply to emails sent to my account. Please post a followup instead.
******************************************************************** |
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Hansang Bae
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:41 am Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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In article <bgk3la$jud$1@hercules.btinternet.com>,
Cisco_Newbie@btopenworld.com says...
| Quote: | I would say that's exceptional, and you have my congratulations. Most
people need at least a year to fit MCSE study in with work, family, etc.
commitments.
|
Not a slam towards "|{evin", but trust me when I say that passing MCSE
tests in two weeks is not "exceptional" *IF* you have familiarity with
the product, you can quickly brush up on the "stupid" trivia stuff and
pass the exam. If you don't bring experience to the table, then yes,
two weeks would be pretty hard to do.
--
hsb
"Somehow I imagined this experience would be more rewarding" Calvin
*************** USE ROT13 TO SEE MY EMAIL ADDRESS ****************
********************************************************************
Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to
reply to emails sent to my account. Please post a followup instead.
******************************************************************** |
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Ralf van Dooren
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:27 am Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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Hansang Bae wrote:
| Quote: | [snip]
Just to clarify my conclusion, I don't agree with 'cheating', but I don't
see an easy way to stop it. My point was that the job interview process
usually defeats the fraudsters.
But some companies don't perform technical interviews. I have a 6 page
written test and a verbal interview process to weed out the paper
people. I've now seen more than 12 people and am still looking for that
"qualified" senior network jockey.
|
Seems ironic: a paper test to weed out the paper people... ;)
I've seen 'senior network' people coming in, not knowing more than I do,
while I don't consider myself 'senior' with regards to networking.
At their previous jobs, they were the only technical guys in the
company... That makes them think they are capable of every 'senior' job
in the world.
"Senior" is more and more becoming a marketing tool to promote yourself.
Maybe Cisco can turn it into a certification? Cisco Certified Networking
Senior ? <g>
Ralf |
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Ceyko
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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Hansang,
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! My companies tend to hammer me about my
technical interviews. Typically, mine are only an hour or so over the phone
asking everything from basic ATM networking to MS server/workstation
questions. "Your too rough" is the typical response from management. Hell,
now I am going to print this out and keep it for reference. "See, I'm a
nice guy. I do not even make them take a written exam." haha
Ceyko
"Hansang Bae" <uonr@alp.ee.pbz> wrote in message
news:MPG.199a5eab9b877925989a55@news-server.nyc.rr.com...
| Quote: | In article <bgk341$j7h$1@hercules.btinternet.com>,
Cisco_Newbie@btopenworld.com says...
[snip]
Just to clarify my conclusion, I don't agree with 'cheating', but I
don't
see an easy way to stop it. My point was that the job interview process
usually defeats the fraudsters.
But some companies don't perform technical interviews. I have a 6 page
written test and a verbal interview process to weed out the paper
people. I've now seen more than 12 people and am still looking for that
"qualified" senior network jockey.
--
hsb
"Somehow I imagined this experience would be more rewarding" Calvin
*************** USE ROT13 TO SEE MY EMAIL ADDRESS ****************
********************************************************************
Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to
reply to emails sent to my account. Please post a followup instead.
********************************************************************
|
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|{evin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 05:41:52 GMT, Hansang Bae <uonr@alp.ee.pbz> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <bgk3la$jud$1@hercules.btinternet.com>,
Cisco_Newbie@btopenworld.com says...
I would say that's exceptional, and you have my congratulations. Most
people need at least a year to fit MCSE study in with work, family, etc.
commitments.
Not a slam towards "|{evin", but trust me when I say that passing MCSE
tests in two weeks is not "exceptional" *IF* you have familiarity with
the product, you can quickly brush up on the "stupid" trivia stuff and
pass the exam. If you don't bring experience to the table, then yes,
two weeks would be pretty hard to do.
|
No slam taken, I agree that the tests aren't all they are made out to
be. I have 20 years experience and know the products so it _was_ easy.
I know not everyone could pull that off (it isn't exceptional either),
but having to take a 'year' to study for the tests is an indicator
that you aren't ready to be an MCSE. |
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John Agosta
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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|
"Ralf van Dooren" <ralf@IAEhv.nl> wrote in message
news:slrnbj17v5.2848.ralf@mxs.mijou.net...
| Quote: | Hansang Bae wrote:
[snip]
Just to clarify my conclusion, I don't agree with 'cheating', but I
don't
see an easy way to stop it. My point was that the job interview
process
usually defeats the fraudsters.
But some companies don't perform technical interviews. I have a 6 page
written test and a verbal interview process to weed out the paper
people. I've now seen more than 12 people and am still looking for that
"qualified" senior network jockey.
Seems ironic: a paper test to weed out the paper people... ;)
I've seen 'senior network' people coming in, not knowing more than I do,
while I don't consider myself 'senior' with regards to networking.
At their previous jobs, they were the only technical guys in the
company... That makes them think they are capable of every 'senior' job
in the world.
"Senior" is more and more becoming a marketing tool to promote yourself.
Maybe Cisco can turn it into a certification? Cisco Certified Networking
Senior ? <g
Ralf
|
In Mexico, there are quite a few Seņor CCNxs !!
;-) |
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Hansang Bae
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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In article <slrnbj17v5.2848.ralf@mxs.mijou.net>, ralf@IAEhv.nl says...
| Quote: | Seems ironic: a paper test to weed out the paper people... 
|
But you haven't seen my written test! Actually, it's not that rough.
If they pass the verbal part, then they move on to the written.
--
hsb
"Somehow I imagined this experience would be more rewarding" Calvin
*************** USE ROT13 TO SEE MY EMAIL ADDRESS ****************
********************************************************************
Due to the volume of email that I receive, I may not not be able to
reply to emails sent to my account. Please post a followup instead.
******************************************************************** |
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Bernie
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:25 am Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:42:10 +0000 (UTC), "Darkmere72"
<Cisco_Newbie@btopenworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Interesting discussion, Bernie...
If you had to devise a solution to all the dumps out there, what would be
your suggestions in a practical sense?
|
There isn't much of a solution. Or let me rephrase that. There are
plenty of solutions that the vendors *could* put in place, *IF* they
wanted to eliminate cheating. Quarterly certification exams
(different each time) at regional Cisco proctored sites could be
used...sort of like other standardized exams. For example, if I was
to take the bar, I doubt I would schedule it with Sylvan and sit in
front of the computer for 90 minutes at my leisure. Any number of
testing models could be used to thwart braindumps.
But that is pointless to suggest, because no vendor would ever
implement such a system, so I am not going to waste my time trying to
think of ideas that would never happen. The reason they won't
implement such systems is that it goes against the whole marketing
model that says "churn out armies of certified people on your product
and they will sell your product en masse." Vendors want it easy for
people to get certified. What goes with that is rampant cheating.
It doesn't mean you should cheat. We foster an anti-cheating group
here. That is our part in fighting against braindumping. We do it at
an individual level, each doing our part. Cisco can't be counted on
to do their part to cut down on cheating, but that doesn't mean we
have to tolerate it in our community.
| Quote: | Do you think any of the vendors would be able to enforce their
non-disclosure agreements?
|
They could if that is what they wanted to do. But they really don't.
I'm not just a cynic--that is the truth of the matter. You almost
have to sell John Chambers a 1-for-1 copy of a Cisco exam to get
cracked down on by Cisco.
| Quote: | E.g. the alt.cert newsgroups are full of cracks,
dumps, hacks, etc... (I must admit, this group is refreshing in that most
participants don't encourage such)
Just to clarify my conclusion, I don't agree with 'cheating', but I don't
see an easy way to stop it. My point was that the job interview process
usually defeats the fraudsters.
|
Relying on the job interview to weed out people is like saying that we
should allow rampant cheating in college because after all, it is the
employers job to make sure their employees are educated. Now I am the
first person to say that the purpose of certs is not to get a better
job with a new employer. So yes, I am in favor of technical
interviews. But it is truly a sad state of affairs that a cert exam
cannot be a sign that a person is knowledgeable. If we can't rely on
a cert exam to mean *something* then why is anybody bothering at all?
It becomes a waste of time and money to pursue something that an
employer cannot trust one bit.
--Bernie |
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Bernie
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:27 am Post subject: Re: CCNA prep |
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On 6 Aug 2003 08:27:49 +0200, Ralf van Dooren <ralf@IAEhv.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | "Senior" is more and more becoming a marketing tool to promote yourself.
Maybe Cisco can turn it into a certification? Cisco Certified Networking
Senior ? <g
|
That's the truth! It seems that if you have 100 engineers within an
organization, 75 of them have "senior" in their title. That is sort
of a problem...
--Bernie |
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