CERTIFICATION MADNESS--LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR GOALS.

Firebird81 · Guest

I honestly have to say I am utterly amazed at the number of people who still
go after this certification blindly, thinking its the gateway to a new
career, then when finding it is not, end up spending thousands of dollars on
cert after cert getting building up certs that are no more useful than this
one. In the long run they would have done better to go for their associate's
degree in a community college, have gotten a lot more hands-on experience,
have spent a lot less money AND be halfway to a full BA in computer science,
the REAL gateway to a career in the computer industry.

So, let's discuss goals and the route to achieve them. What you tend to see
on cert websites and ngs is a lot of encouragement to get that next cert.
You see guys going around with A+/N+/MCP?Server+/MOUS tagged onto their
names like some kind of military medals.

First off, you need to decide what it is you want to do--
If you want to service computers ( repair,troubleshoot, build PCs), then A+
is the right cert, but its not in and of itself effective in any way shape
or form in the job hunting process. Basically your career path here would
consist of working for Best Buy at $12 an hour or starting your own business
in a highly overcrowded and competitive marketplace. Consulting requires
much more than just an A+ cert tho. Successful consultants have years of
experience and a broad base of knowledge on networks, UNIX, cisco, all
flavors of windows, defining and implementing successful systems for
clients. Of course, even working in a shop for $12 tends to require more
than A+ anymore--I hvae seen CompUSA ads demanding not only A+, but 6 or 7
different Vendor-specific certs---(DELL, etc.) Bottomline, outside of
building a successful consulting business, you'll likely never make enough
to even own your own home fixing computers. The real money comes in IT, so
then we all rush out for THOSE certs, but here's the catch, guys---the
rquirements for IT jobs these days have risen dramatically and are not
likely to ever come back down. 95% of all entry-level IT jobs now REQUIRE a
BAchelor's Degree in Computer Science just to make it to the first
interview. Alll the certs in the world will do no good, when there are 20
othe rguys with BAs applying for the same position.

The point I'm making is this--don't waste your time and money going cert
crazy. There is no magic combination that will get your foot in the door. Go
back to school and get that degree. THEN, you will be able to compete in
this job market. THEN if a job requires an MCSE you cna just go take the
tests and supplement your degree( the usual assumption of such positions is
that all applicants already have their degree, the cert is an additional
requirement)

Upon getting a degree, there are only 3 cert paths you will EVER see job
offers asking for

1. A+ (server+ is unknown and no one cares, as well as every other COMPTIA
cert) for repair techs. many times all need vendor-specific certs.

2. MCSE -- the most valuable of all certs, becuase it is demanded the most,
but usually considered a supplement to a BA.

3. CISCO--- CCNA will do you no good on its own, and CCIE may be the most
valuable moneywise, but it's also the hardest and most intensive, requiring
10+ years of experience ( total mastery) to pass. once again, no BA, no can
do.

All other certs are a complete waste of time in the job market. I have yet
to see any cert courses that focus on actually learning the skill rather
than passing a test.

Decide what you want to do and then look in your local paper at similar jobs
being listed and see their requirements. Set your goals and move forward,
but don't make the mistake of spending $5,000 getting 10 different certs
thinking it will make you more vlauable and cover up for a lack of real
education or experience. There are over 300,000 A+ certified "techs",
probably 20% of whom are actually working in the industry. MCSE is not far
behind. And MCSE courses can cost $5k! I'm not trying to discourage anyone
just point you in the right direction. It shard enough fro a guylike me who
has literally years of experience to find a new job in this industry, much
less some person who fell foro the hype or the cert "shortcut". Take my
advice and you'll have a rewarding career. Otherwise, you may end up
woprking at Home Depot.

John Davolta · Guest

You really hit the spot. Couldn't agree more with you! I've spent more than
10 years in the industry and these last 2 years market requirements made me
go back to night school to get my degree!

Here in Europe the only meaningful cert is MCSE, besides a college degree!

Firebird81 · Guest

Thank you and good luck to you as well. Remember BEFORE all of these
certifications when there were actually PC repair trade schools where you
would go for a year and actually learn the skills, rather than test prep?
And they had job placement that worked because their graduates left the
school with a new trade, just like any other trade. These days you don't see
those schools anymore. Its all about A+ test prep and completely useless in
the real world.

Gareth Church · Guest

I agree too. The only thing I would add is the need for other, non-computing
skills. A relevant certification or maybe two is fine, and will put you
ahead of someone who doesn't have them. But you will fall way, way behind
again if you don't have other skills. In a lot of jobs these days employers
don't care all that much about your computing skills. As you say a degree to
show you have a solid background is great, and some other proof that you are
competent is good. But really most employers are looking for other skills.
They want people in computing who can communicate effectively and
professionally with clients. They want someone who is enthusiastic and
willing to learn. They want people who have good written communication
skills. They want people who can work effectively in a team. They want
someone who comes across confidently and professionally in that interview.
Every job requires some training, or at the very least a period of learning
how things are done at that workplace. Teaching someone who has a solid
background some new skills isn't a problem. But teaching someone with poor
communication skills, or who thinks they know it all and can't work in a
team, to change - that just isn't going to happen.

Gareth

mark mandell · Guest

Yes and the other day when I was talking to the owner of a computing school
here in L.A. he remarked that in the "old" days being a "paper" MCSE could
be sufficient enough to get you a job but no more. One issue that came up
was the dot.com bust where alot of these people lost jobs. And about a
month ago I happened to read a long article on some website debunking this
entire "Certification Madness" as you appropriately put it(which is all the
more evident when you check into the monthly computer newspaper I see and
see a ton of ads touting all this certification crap at their schools).

But I've now just started the above mentioned school because I happen to
like "fooling around" with my PC and this curiosity intensified recently
when I realized I had alot of spare time to make this a more serious
undertaking. I may very well take the A+ exam just to test myself actually
and not as the springboard to get instant employment which as you indicate
is pretty tough in the "real world" .

Mark Mandell
A typical A+ wannabe ;-)
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John Davolta · Guest

Well, i remember attending IBM's 6 months or more courses (in my case for
middle-sized mainframes) with hands-on experience and by the time you've
finished you would have enterprises knocking at the school's door for your
skills! Now even those courses have changed at big blue...

Firebird81 · Guest

There's nothing wrong with that at all, Mark. As long as you're realistic,
but it sounds like your goals are more personal based than professional. Its
those who want a career who should avoid this stuff. There is no shortcut to
a career in Information Technology.

mark mandell · Guest

Right. Well, I'm already a self-employed piano technician so this is also a
good sort of time filler. So when things got so slow last month(as they all
too often do, y'know a "feast and famine" thing) it got me fired up into
getting more serious about it.

Mark

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